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Things i have noticed

 
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peterthepizza



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 13
Location: Perth W.A

 PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:23 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Hi
I was just reading the history of ardania and i have noticed a resemblence between the coming of the elves in ardania and The Lord og the rings.
I am a Lord of the Rings fan and i have the silmarillion (a book concening the history of Middle earth)
And the coming of the elves in mIddle earth is quite the same as in Ardania.

1) The elves in bothe stories come across the sea in boats
2) In bothe of the stories the elves burn the ships
3) Both stories describe the ships as being white

Im not abusing cyborlore but i would just like to point out the similarities
Bane
 
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TaleSpinner



Joined: 08 Sep 2000
Posts: 2018
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

 PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:04 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Someone observed this quite some time ago as well. I think it was done intentionally by Cyberlore - sort of a "isn't that a strange co-incidence hmmm.." thrown in fact.

Perhaps they wanted to imply (in a vague, underhand way) that the Ardanian elves are possibly related to the Tolkien elves without the Tolkien estate coming down on them like a tonne of bricks. Maybe many-times-removed cousins etc. I also think that they intentionally stated that the Ardanian elves sailed in from the East. At the end of the third book of LotR, the elves left Middle-Earth by sailing off to the West. Bizarre? I think so. Too much nonsense going on in my mind? Definately.

[ 10. July 2003, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: TaleSpinner ]
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:16 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Well, the Tolkien elves came from the West so of course they're going to go back to the West when they leave

Another nod to Tolkien is the Quest for the Magic Ring quest...
 
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Whitedog



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 74
Location: the Great White North

 PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:47 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Aside from all of that, though, the similarities end. The boozin', gamblin', whor-, er, loungin' elves of Ardania do not even come close to the nobel eternals of Tolkien. Perhaps the Ardania elves were 'voted off of the continent' so to speak. And I'm not sure if Cyberlore would need to worry too much about any repercussions from Tolkien. Dungeons & Dragons is the biggest, most blatant copyright infringement of the Tolkien legacy, and if they let Gary Gygax get away with it then I can't see them going after anybody else.

[ 10. July 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Whitedog ]
 
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vaneth



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 87
Location: Ardanian Isles

 PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:29 pm    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Touche' Whitedog and Spiderman . . .

I'm waiting for a war-gaming version of LOTR.
 
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Whitedog



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 74
Location: the Great White North

 PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:10 pm    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Well, there's already the LotR version of the RISK board game, so the next logical step would be to go to the next gaming platform...
 
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peterthepizza



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 13
Location: Perth W.A

 PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:30 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the replies guys. I obviously didn't read the passage correctly or i wouldn't have posted the message
Bane
 
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Alfryd



Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 914

 PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:16 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

One thing, though. The little description of the elven bungalow you get by clicking states that bright blue shingles are their trademark, so to speak, and date back to pre-recorded times. If the elves arrived well after the establishment of Garuta's scribe records, and elves don't say a thing about their origins, how do they know the shingles are prehistoric?

[ 12. July 2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Alfryd, disciple of Krolm. ]
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Whitedog:
Dungeons & Dragons is the biggest, most blatant copyright infringement of the Tolkien legacy, and if they let Gary Gygax get away with it then I can't see them going after anybody else.

That's not true. D&D was originally going to use "hobbits" instead of "halflings" and was told they couldn't do it. Other than that, all of the other beginning races/monsters was not Tolkien exclusive.

And D&D is a "ripoff" off of Tolkien in the sense that it started out because people wanted to see how orcs and elves warred in a tabletop setting, just like other table-top gaming like the Civil War which apparently was big back then. People created stats for armies and whatnot and then it evolved to the point where instead of controlling armies, you controlled a single character.
 
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Whitedog



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 74
Location: the Great White North

 PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 2:18 pm    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Spiderman:
That's not true. D&D was originally going to use "hobbits" instead of "halflings" and was told they couldn't do it. Other than that, all of the other beginning races/monsters was not Tolkien exclusive.

I guess that what I was aiming at was that D&D would probably not have been a success, or even concieved, if not for Tolkien. The legend of King Arthur and Merlin the Wizard are ages older than Tolkien, but it just doesn't have that magical oompf as LotR. And there weren't many magical items in the Basic Starter set either, maybe only 40 or so, including potions and scrolls. A ring of invisibility and a flaming sword are the two most prominent items in my mind. Plus, the Elf was a class in itself, wearing armor, using weapons AND being able to cast spells (I think elves were synonymous with fairies before JRR's stories made them warriors). And I'm pretty sure that the Half-Orc came from there too. How else would they have thought to cross Orcs (which then were weakling, 4hp walking pigs) and Humans and come out with a race stronger than Humans? I'll agree that D&D does have enough differences to stand apart from LotR, but it's as close as you can get to being Tolkien without actually being Tolkien, don't you think?
 
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vaneth



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 87
Location: Ardanian Isles

 PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 2:36 pm    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, I agree with Whitedog, but Spiderman does have a point, and I distinctly remember him telling me about Quest for the Magic Ring when I brought up a LOTR topic a few months back.
 
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Whitedog



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 74
Location: the Great White North

 PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:51 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

You know, I'm not sure if Quest for the Magic Ring is really all that LotR-ish. LotR is a quest about destroying an evil ring that had already been found. Majesy's Quest is just the opposite of that, trying to find a good ring. Right? The only similarity is that they are both rings.
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:49 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
I guess that what I was aiming at was that D&D would probably not have been a success, or even concieved, if not for Tolkien.
True, like I said before, D&D grew out of the fantasy tabletop gaming which in turn was sparked by interest in Tolkien's world.

The Quest for the Magic Ring is a nod to Tolkien; it's not the same quest itself. Check out the Inn's name that's nearby...
 
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Whitedog



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 74
Location: the Great White North

 PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:50 pm    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Ah, you mean Underhills. I forgot about that place. Is it always Underhills every time the Quest is loaded? I never even thought to check. Very observant Spidey.
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:03 am    Post subject: Things i have noticed Reply with quote Back to top

Yep, although I wasn't the first to notice it; someone else brought it up here when the game was first released
 
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