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Temples and Their Gods
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CMMNov1990



Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 4

 PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:09 pm    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

I want to see if anyone thinks that you should be able to build rival temples in the same knigdom in future Majesty games.
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:15 am    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

I think it's fine the way it is. Cyberlore obviously had their own reasons for making it that way and I can think of game balance right off the bat. If you want all temples to be available, just use the cheat Build All or get the Northern Expansion and play with the setting that allows all the temples (or four, I'm not sure Krolm is included).
 
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Alfryd



Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 914

 PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:31 pm    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

My preferred scheme would be to have Dauros/Fervus, Agrela/Krypta, Helia/Krypta, and Lunord/Agrela incompatible. Krolm would be compatible with Krypta/Agrela, but nothing else. Otherwise, free reign. You could have Krolm/Krypta, Helia/Fervus/Agrela, or Dauros/Helia/Lunord, for instance.
I couldn't really answer the question, since I want to change the arrangment of rivals.

[ 11. September 2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Alfryd, disciple of Krolm. ]
 
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Venstar Trailblazer



Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 600
Location: Harrisburg,PA

 PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:50 pm    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

I decided on saying no boundries of the rivals, just my idea was that you keep the rivalry, just make the units fight when they are in the same kingdom.
 
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Alfryd



Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 914

 PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:37 pm    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

Problem is, you still get the sovereign spells that way.
 
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Falotar



Joined: 22 Jan 2001
Posts: 2579
Location: Yaro'on the Fair

 PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:06 pm    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Alfryd, disciple of Krolm.:
My preferred scheme would be to have Dauros/Fervus, Agrela/Krypta, Helia/Krypta, and Lunord/Agrela incompatible. Krolm would be compatible with Krypta/Agrela, but nothing else. Otherwise, free reign. You could have Krolm/Krypta, Helia/Fervus/Agrela, or Dauros/Helia/Lunord, for instance.
I couldn't really answer the question, since I want to change the arrangment of rivals.

Apart from the balance issues, I don't see why Krolm would be compatible with any of them. Also, I would remind you that Lunord and Helia hate each other as much or more as they hate their father.
 
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M



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 421
Location: Right here

 PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:27 am    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

That's true, but Alfryd was only suggesting that the gaMe would be better/More balanced that way, not the story.
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:49 am    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

Why would the game be different from the story?
 
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Goldy_Bear



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 2588
Location: Texas

 PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:00 am    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

Well.....My feeling is that if Cyberlore had written the story and game to allow all temples and guilds or a different combination of compatibility we would probably have a different set of fans asking why the game isn't more difficult by introducing rivalry between the Gods and Heroes. It seems to me this discussion is very similar to asking why one collects $200 as one passes Go in Monopoly. In the end game designers have to settle on a set of rules which is mostly arbitrary which they believe will make for a good game. There will always be someone who wants to know why the salary in Monopoly isn't $500 for sake of example.

[ 15. September 2003, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Goldy_Bear ]
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:22 am    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

True, that's why there's a house rule of putting 500 on the opposite diagonal space although the method of winning it escapes me right now
 
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Falotar



Joined: 22 Jan 2001
Posts: 2579
Location: Yaro'on the Fair

 PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:08 pm    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

I believe ypou have to land squarely on it.
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:32 am    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

Something as easy as that? Shows I haven't played in a while
 
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Alfryd



Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 914

 PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:56 pm    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not at all sure that Cyberlore has paid a great deal of attention to game balance. They compensated for cultist's massive inferiority to monks by overpowering WoDs with howl of discord, then worsened the already unblaanced adept/solari situation, and to this day Wither alone is supposed to compensate for the seriously overpriced Animate Bones, Reanimate, Fervus' Healing and Illusory Hero. The death/chaos temples have too many eggs in one basket. There is no truly effective defense against the first player to build a sorcerer's abode. Elves are the only winnable multiplayer strategy. And the early Krolm rush remains almost unbeatable.

So, while I'd love to wrangle out the issues of whether or not changes in temple arrangments would be balanced, I have to ask, would the developers care?
As for the storyline elements, bear in mind Maj2 appears to be set in the distant past. Temple arrangements might not have been so stratified back then, until historical feuds erupted.
 
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Falotar



Joined: 22 Jan 2001
Posts: 2579
Location: Yaro'on the Fair

 PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:03 am    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

Ah, but I believe that the feuds erupted practically as soon as the new gods came on the scene. The exceptions might be Agrela/Fervus and Krypta/Dauros, since they aren't diametrically opposed and, you're right, it did take some time for their "present-day" alliances to codify.
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:51 am    Post subject: Temples and Their Gods Reply with quote Back to top

I disagree about the balance, at least in terms of single player; the Fervus and Krypta can have followers, which makes up for a great deal. I do agree their spells are slightly expensive, at least in regards to Agrela who can self-Heal and others, but I rarely use them except for Wither and Animate Dead and Heal (maybe that's my fault).

Can't really speak for MP, though I remember it was said one fellow had perfected the Gnome/Elf/Dwarf route and Krolm rush depends on the map (I think). Not sure about the Abode defense...
 
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