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Elves vs. Dwarves
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Goldy_Bear



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 2588
Location: Texas

 PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:25 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

Uh...hmmm...Galen...It isn't the Elves that people who use Elves want. It is the Bungalow. The money bonus which is the main reason for preferring Elves comes from the Bungalow not the heroes. What you are suggesting is analogous to building a Dwarven Settlement and Outpost, then lightning bolting the Settlement and any Ballistas built. People don't chiefly want dwarves for the dwarves' sake but for the defensive advantages of their buildings.
 
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Cooker



Joined: 20 Mar 2000
Posts: 1710

 PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:54 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Goldy_Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Merlin the Black:
elf all the way except the spires and wrath, you can't win these too without dwarves.

Uh...Cooker.... I can
How? Dwarves are only hero resistant enough to magic to defeat the spires, and ballista towers are the only thing that will stop the avatar, these quest seemed impossible without dwarves unless, you have a few high level monks, which, are invincible even against bosses.
 
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Goldy_Bear



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 2588
Location: Texas

 PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:23 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

Regarding Spires of Death:
My favorite and most reliably successful strategy for defeating this quest uses an Elven based 3 market economy and 3 Temples to Krolm. I have also defeated this quest using the forces of Law and Paladins with Elves (although that was one of my first wins and took me about 75 days). I have defeated this quest about 4 times in 40 days using my Krolm strategy (so I know it is not a one time lucky break). Using the same strategy I defeated it once in 27 days (I have not been able to duplicate that completion time).

We could argue issues of hero stats and abilities all day long and you would probably win each debate because I don't pay too much attention to which hero has the highest dodge or which hero is the most magic resistant. I just play the game, experiment and find what works for me. Heroes level up fast on this quest and most high level heroes can survive the Spires for a period of time. A hero's life expectancy against the Spires can be exteneded through the use of spells and healing potions - invisibility, anti-magic, heal spell, Call to Arms, Change of Heart, and Rage of Krolm to name a few can be used to help heroes destroy the Spires. Liberal use of sovereign spells and intervention cost gold which is why I usually use Elves. I have played this quest a lot and I have witnessed just about every hero type destroy a Spire at one time or another - Solarii, Adepts, Barbarians, Rogues, Wizards, Paladins, Rangers, Monks, Warriors......

Regarding Wrath of Krolm:
My memory on this is a little fuzzier because in fact my favorite strategy uses Dwarves. But before I did use dwarves I won this quest several time using Paladins and an Elven based economy. Paladins can easily tie up Avatar if you are prepared to baby the one the Avatar is attacking with the heal spell. It is not impossible to win this quest by killing the Avatar. Lightning storm comes in handy for defending your town against the RoK'ed monster waves. Again all of this costs gold which necesitates Elves.

[ 13. June 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Goldy_Bear ]
 
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Steven Of Nine



Joined: 26 Jul 2000
Posts: 1567
Location: Plano, TX, USA

 PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:50 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Merlin the Black:
quote:
Originally posted by Goldy_Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Merlin the Black:
elf all the way except the spires and wrath, you can't win these too without dwarves.

Uh...Cooker.... I can
How?
Anti-magic Shield makes anyone a great resistor.
 
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Venstar Trailblazer



Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 600
Location: Harrisburg,PA

 PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:34 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Goldy_Bear:
Uh...hmmm...Galen...It isn't the Elves that people who use Elves want. It is the Bungalow. The money bonus which is the main reason for preferring Elves comes from the Bungalow not the heroes. What you are suggesting is analogous to building a Dwarven Settlement and Outpost, then lightning bolting the Settlement and any Ballistas built. People don't chiefly want dwarves for the dwarves' sake but for the defensive advantages of their buildings.

I just like attack and defense units. I don't care for the money, much. But that is why I use that strategy, the elves give you the money needed for the Outpost, Dwarven Settlements, and Ballista Towers. This is a good idea for Spires of Doom.
 
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Goldy_Bear



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 2588
Location: Texas

 PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:12 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

Galen,

One of us is not understanding the other. I will assume I didn't understand what you just said. I am not sure you understood what I said about the Elven Bungalow gold bonus. I will repeat. The bonus does not come from the Elves it comes from the Bungalow. Do me a favor if you pursue your strategy of getting rid of the Elven Bungalows. Save yourself some gold. Don't use lightning bolts. Select the Bungalow and use the demolish button from the Bungalow details portrait on the left control panel.

- GB
 
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Decorn1



Joined: 04 Jun 2003
Posts: 31

 PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 5:59 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

Or, have you ever tried a cross-species civil war? First, get elves. Then, build an outpost, demolish the bungalow, etc. Next, build a dwarven settlement, and then declare war on all the elves left in the kingdom and see who wins: The elves... or the dwarves. A sick idea... but a fun one.
 
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Goldy_Bear



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 2588
Location: Texas

 PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:52 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Decorn the Mighty:
Or, have you ever tried a cross-species civil war? First, get elves. Then, build an outpost, demolish the bungalow, etc. Next, build a dwarven settlement, and then declare war on all the elves left in the kingdom and see who wins: The elves... or the dwarves. A sick idea... but a fun one.

Try playing "Elven Treachery" or "Urban Renewal" and recruit only dwarves if you want to try this out.....

[ 13. June 2003, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Goldy_Bear ]
 
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M



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 421
Location: Right here

 PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 6:25 am    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

SoMeone Mentioned earlier that people more often choose elves or dwarves for their buildings' abilities than for the heroes. Recently I have been choosing Dwarves to get Dwarves. They are fairly good at defense, especially against Magic (which balances out their slow speed) and have powerful attacks. In addition, they are pretty greedy.
 
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Venstar Trailblazer



Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 600
Location: Harrisburg,PA

 PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 4:00 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

Goldy_Bear,

I did understand that. What I meant is, I'm not in it for the gold, I'm in it for the heros. Now do you understand?
 
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Cooker



Joined: 20 Mar 2000
Posts: 1710

 PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 5:55 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

easy, more gold means more heroes
 
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The Red Panda



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 34
Location: A tree somewhere not in China

 PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 8:39 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Galen Frese:
Goldy_Bear,

I did understand that. What I meant is, I'm not in it for the gold, I'm in it for the heros. Now do you understand?

Someone needs to work on corrupting Galen. All this virtue and lack of greed may put me off my bamboo....

- The Red Panda
 
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Venstar Trailblazer



Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 600
Location: Harrisburg,PA

 PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 11:54 pm    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by The Red Panda:
quote:
Originally posted by Galen Frese:
Goldy_Bear,

I did understand that. What I meant is, I'm not in it for the gold, I'm in it for the heros. Now do you understand?

Someone needs to work on corrupting Galen. All this virtue and lack of greed may put me off my bamboo....

- The Red Panda

The reason I don't care much of the gold is... that I use the "Fill this bag" cheat code when I'm running low. Is that corrupt enough for you. Let's do an evil laugh... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha he he he he he! Lol.
 
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Diablo



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 59
Location: Chennai city, Tamil Nadu, India

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:01 am    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

Hmmm...
*Checks first message*

So I did say that I didn't want Cheats in the picture...

Anyway, this seems the best thing to do:

Build Dwarven settlements, get around 15 Dwarves, build the ballista towers you want, destroy the dwarven settlements, and then elven bungalow is up... but that would take a bit too long, don't you think?

Spires? Is there such a quest? Do you mean one of the two secret Northern Quests?
 
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M



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 421
Location: Right here

 PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:11 am    Post subject: Elves vs. Dwarves Reply with quote Back to top

Let's see. You are planning on getting FIVE dwarven settleMents?!?!?! How long is your average gaMe, anyway? The fifth would cost you about 300000 gold!
 
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