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Plaladins too strongs?
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DBD



Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 77

 PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2001 1:15 pm    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

I dunno but I feel the heroes too unbalanced. All in all, Paladins are much too strong.

All heroes are different but there isn't so many different things to do for heroes.
- Fighting
- Exploring
- Bring money to kingdom
- Building
- Stealing
- Training
- Buy stuff for improving

In all these area, Paladins are either the best, either among the best. Only stealing and Builiding dedicated to only few particular heroes isn't available for Paladins.

That's not cool. for example, sure Warrior of discords or Solarii have different characteristics, but none make them more efficient than Paladins in fights and so on. Even in fights, they fight not enough differently than Paladins so doesn't brought any pratical differences unlike Wizards and Priestress. Even rangers doesn't really brought something significantly different in fights.

All in all, appart the non human races, for fighting I see only :
- Priestress for their skeletons and well despite they die too easiliy and doesn't improve through items, they are probably the single real alternate choice to Paladins for fighting.
- Wizards for their late highest fire power but they die too easily and I just remember a quest where they really do the difference, Day of Reckoning.
- Barbarian for bringing RoK but also disabling all other temples and then making a quest with Barbarian less diversified appart the special quests with special mix.

About other roles or activities, I see only :
- Adepts for protecting the city with the help of their speed.
- Rogues for flag exploring.
- Rangers for random exploring.
- Healer for Healing other.

For Solarii, they guarison guard towers or explore a bit like rangers plus discover buildings, but they require third level palace so their exploring ability isn't really significant. And you can't bet on them for guarison as it could happen or not. Plus for exploring, Paladins do mostly as well and die much less when doing so.

For monks, they could fight differently and in a fun way but this doesn't brought anything to tactic or other heroes and they are just weak in comparison to Paladins. And appart fighting, Monks are useless.

For Warrior of discords, they could hit harder and have much more HP, the result is here they prove to be much less efficient in all area than Paladins.

Cultists can perhaps charm animals but this doesn't brought anything as they do that in a too low percent of cases and overall are just weak fighters.

Warriors are more helped by Healers but this doesn't change they aren't a match in comparison to Paladin even if Paladin cost twice the price.

For non-human races, none can be compared to other heroes. Gnomes are just for building, elves for bringing more money and Dwarves for bringing building and Balista.

So well I fell the game very unbalanced in favor to Paladins and this suck. Particulary for the cool Monks and Solarri and also for the less cool Cultists and Warriors of discord.

Also :

- As a third level Palace guild, Adepts prove to not be necessary in most quests because available only when the quest is already win.
- Rangers are rarely a match to Rogues and flags for exploring.
- Wizards die too easily to really add something. Taking care of them individualy works but they level up very slowly in all quests appart DoR and you'll have to do so even when they will have reach a significant level 7 and above. All of this removing too much attention to the rest of the game.
 
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DBD



Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 77

 PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2001 2:33 pm    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by DBD:
I dunno but I feel the heroes too unbalanced. All in all, Paladins are much too strong...



Well, without changing too much the game what could perhaps be do? I know Majesty 2 will be so different that it's a useless question, anyway:

All in all Paladins are great fighters; die hardly, explore well and follow missions well. The purpose isn't that the other heroes result like that but have significantly different skills.

- Solarii : Adepts are sort of specialized in Town defend, Solarii should be specialized in Guarison. When doing so they should win XP and they should do so always as a first choice and with a sort of preference order, Guard Towers, Balista, Inns, Trading post. If no guarison place are available then they should perform exploring. And if one statue has been build and an attack flag price was high enough (like 500), they could leave guarding for attacking.

- Warriors: They should be the cheap version of Paladins as they already are but they should cost even less, for example as rogues. And should have a recruit time even shorter than rogues. And they should progress first levels fast. Then they will have a particular role of fighting unit dying easily but cost few and fast to recruit.

- Cultists : They should have a sort of similar behavior than Healers but for charming animals. They should run a bit faster, avoid fights and fleeing much more, succeed and perform more charming, plus small healing of charmed animals. They should progress level less fast and through, a bit exploring, mostly charming and healing animals. And their level progression should allow them charming more powerful animals.

- Warrior of Discords : They should hit even harder or having their special hits (instant death and multiple oponent hit) perform more often, making them the close-range high power and dangerous unit. But they definitely die a lot too easiliy so they should use healing potion and know to escape as Paladins. In order to not make them alternate Paladins, they will keep other characteristics resulting in a unit less overall less powerful and that flee more than Plaladins. To compensate, they should go to flags very easily and never raid a lair without flag. At the opposite, Paladin should still not go to explore flags and go to attack flags only if one statue is build and the flag cost 1000 or more. Plus they should have a longer react time before going to these sort of flags and be disturbed from going to the flag for fighting powerful evil like Vampire.

- Barbarians should have their own little RoK for a cost price, half the time and only a limited area. They should be cheaper and faster to recruit a bit like Warriors to make them alternate warriors but very different. They should also band much more, mostly not exploring and attacking alone but at least with another Barb or Ranger. Plus third level temples should be allowed with them.

In addition to these adjustements, few other changes could be brought to other heroe and keeping a sort of balance and diversity of role:

- Rogues should brought more gold through inns from their stealing.

- Wizards should never go berzerk and use a bit more short teleport for fleeing. They should give up after a first magic attack reflection as against vampire. This will make them better standalone surviver but still not amazing fighters.

- Adepts should use long range teleport for reaching an area but not for escaping.

- Higher priestress shoud summon something else than skeletons as rare Vampire (not charming) and a new undead unit slighty faster than skeleton or just Zombie. As undead specialist they should be protected against Vampire magic reflect and should be more resistant than other units against undead attacks and Vampire spell.
 
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DBD



Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 77

 PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2001 3:17 pm    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by DBD:
Well, without changing too much the game what could perhaps be do? I know Majesty 2 will be so different that it's a useless question, anyway...



Damnit I forgot the cool Monks. They definitely need an improvement or change in comparison to Paladins. They can be amazing sometimes in fights and succeed increadible standalone fights that only Paladin can perform. But In the long run they prove being not efficient particulary because when you have the Monks you have the Paladins available.

But it's very hard to change the current combo Priestress+Cultist+Warrior of discord vs Monks+Healer+Palain vs Barbarian. Ho well except Rangers level 2 with Barbarian.

So the purpose is to make them units really different than Paladins

A first thing is that they move without armors and bare hand so they should be fast, faster than Paladins but not as fast than Adepts. Perhaps as fast than Rangers.

Appart that and appart making a whole new game, I don't see something obvious. Perhaps giving them long teleport for sort of outside Adepts, plus a little more health restore during fights, or allowing them health potions to make them better standalone survivor.
 
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Falotar



Joined: 22 Jan 2001
Posts: 2579
Location: Yaro'on the Fair

 PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2001 10:25 pm    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

I have only read your original post, ofr which I apologize. However, since I assume that your other posts describe how to "improve" other heroes, I took the liberty of skipping them, since the other heroes don't really need improvement. I should also like to point out that you don't take into consideration the effects of N.E., which changes quite a few things.
But, even with just the original game, you should realize that Paladins are not a panacea. Even on their own track, Monks outshine them. Points:
-Melee: Monks have better Parry and a Critical Hit
-Ranged: Paladins are faster
-Speed: see Ranged
-Armour: Paladins have Upgrades/SoL; Monks have Stoneskin
-Magic: Monks can learn Library Spells; lvl. 7 grants Iron Will with corresponding Magic resistance boost
-Marketplace: Paladins will buy; Monks won't
-Overall Appeal: Paladin appearance & voicelines semi-self-righteous; Monk appaerance and voicelines endearing
-Cost: Paladin g1000; Monk g550
What do these facts lead us to believe (ell, OA is rather subjective)? That the Monk is superior against high-strength, slowish monsters or heroes, that Paladins are more of an anti-Ranged hero.
Now, I notice that you say Rangers don't compare favourably to Paladins. The truth is, they don't compare at all. Rangers are Ranged; Paladins are Melee. Rangers are meant for an all-round Ranged hero with a bent toward exploration. They perform this task admirably, though sometimes one could wish they "ranged" a bit more.
Rogues and Elves are alike in that they chase after Reward flags. Like the Ranger, you can't compare them directly to the Paladin.
Wizards and Priestesses are both excellant heroes. Wizards expecially wield extremely damaging spells; a little "babay-sitting can get them up to high levels, at which they become nearly immortal. Priestesses are slightly different they depend on something outside themselves to be successful, namely their undead minions. They can become quite powerful through them, charming Vampires and (N.E.) Shadowbeasts.
That's enough for now, but rest assured the other heroes have their uses.
 
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DBD



Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 77

 PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2001 10:25 am    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
I have only read your original post, ofr which I apologize.


That's ok, I don't think it removes interest to your answer.
quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
However, since I assume that your other posts describe how to "improve" other heroes,


That's right but I didní try to make them all Paladins. For example I suggested no improvement to rangers as they already have the particular task of best random explore. I tried to suggest improvements to make some heroes, ok stronger but also with more significant and distinctive particularity.
quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
I took the liberty of skipping them, since the other heroes don't really need improvement.


Don't you think the Paladin is too strong in comparison to some classes that haven't an enough different or special role?

I think of Monks, Warriors, Solarii, Cultists, Warriors of Discord and perhaps Barbarians. That's not all classes but a good bunch of them.

Also, For exploring, ok the Ranger rocks but in Expert quests it often proves to not works as well and Paladins prove, or will have prove if available, to be mostly as efficient in these conditions. I think of Tomb of Dragon King, Day of Reckoning, Vengence of the Liche Queen, perhaps Dark Forest,...

But on another way about the Ranger, I suggested no improvements and the improvement in the extension to speed him up a little seems a good choice. So all in all, I agree with you for the Ranger it hasnít to be compared to the Paladin.
quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
I should also like to point out that you don't take into consideration the effects of N.E., which changes quite a few things.


You're right I'm out of the range because of that but I can't take it into consideration as I'm a Mac user... sorry... for me!
quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
But, even with just the original game, you should realize that Paladins are not a panacea.


Well, my first post wasn't clear or I adjust my opinion when doing the next one. Anyway I'm agree with you about that. Yes, they are not a panacea, Rogues, Rangers, Gnomes and other has their own strength enough distinctive to not be substitute by Paladins.
quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
Even on their own track, Monks outshine them. Points:
-Melee: Monks have better Parry and a Critical Hit
-Ranged: Paladins are faster
-Speed: see Ranged
-Armour: Paladins have Upgrades/SoL; Monks have Stoneskin
-Magic: Monks can learn Library Spells; lvl. 7 grants Iron Will with corresponding Magic resistance boost
-Marketplace: Paladins will buy; Monks won't
-Overall Appeal: Paladin appearance & voicelines semi-self-righteous; Monk appaerance and voicelines endearing
-Cost: Paladin g1000; Monk g550


Thanks for this deep answer wich was what I waited for when I started this thread. A thing you forgot is Paladins goes in Fairgrounds, Monks not.

The problem isn't that they are different or not but : Is their effet on quest is really different? Your last point answer to this :
quote:
What do these facts lead us to believe (ell, OA is rather subjective)? That the Monk is superior against high-strength, slowish monsters or heroes, that Paladins are more of an anti-Ranged hero.



I'm perhaps wrong but in fact I never see Monks proving to be better against any monsters than the Paladin. Slowish monsters? I already saw one Paladin taking down one Rock Golem, never a Monk. For most other Slowish monsters, the Monk could take it down when the Paladin will. That are just my own observations.

About the particular adventadges of the Monk vs the Paladin:
- Monks have better Parry : Ok but with much worse armor and even worse no Health potions, the Monk prove to be much less efficient than Paladin for defending.
- Monk have Critical Hit : Ok but it happens not enough often and all in all for damage per minute done to an oponent, the Paladin performs much better.
- Monks can learn Library Spells; lvl. 7 grants Iron Will with corresponding Magic resistance boost : Ok, good point, thereís perhaps not enough Magic monsters in order to make Monk shines in this area. For example agaisnt a Vampire, the Monk isnít a match to the Paladin in this task, despite the Vampire is a magic user. Also Library spell could be learned by the Monk they still doesnít make them more efficient or different than Paladin in the single task they do, general fighting.
quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
Now, I notice that you say Rangers don't compare favourably to Paladins. The truth is, they don't compare at all. Rangers are Ranged; Paladins are Melee. Rangers are meant for an all-round Ranged hero with a bent toward exploration. They perform this task admirably, though sometimes one could wish they "ranged" a bit more.
Rogues and Elves are alike in that they chase after Reward flags. Like the Ranger, you can't compare them directly to the Paladin.


I agree and in the answers I did to myself :-), I suggested no improvement for them.
quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
Wizards and Priestesses are both excellant heroes. Wizards expecially wield extremely damaging spells; a little "babay-sitting can get them up to high levels, at which they become nearly immortal. Priestesses are slightly different they depend on something outside themselves to be successful, namely their undead minions. They can become quite powerful through them, charming Vampires and (N.E.) Shadowbeasts.


For the Priestress I agree with you they are the single real alternate value to the Paladin for general fighting and even have advantadges against some monsters as Dragons.

For the Wizard, I donít understand, perhaps I use them not well. Sure they have a high firepower in later level which make them distinctive. But as you wrote with careful babysitting, which means not enough care to something else. Plus real luck when go out of range to wizard towers and when they become Berzerk.

Ok with baby sitting two wizard reach level 5 or 7. Then you stop babysitting? myself in most quests this result in a dead wizard. Perhaps then I didnít use enough reviving. But if I really have 2000 gold at my disposal, the problem is they revive in the same hot corner and Iím not ready to spend 2000 then another 2000,... Plus if the quest state is hot I often has something better for my money or itís like I feel it.

Well in few quests I saw an interest to wizards, Day of Reckoning and Wrath of Krolm. And also later when replay Hold off Goblins but in this one in much more time than with mostly no wizard.

I suggested above in the thread only few little improvements for the Wizard because I also agree with you that it is a class well distinctive. I think of another one, reviving them should work as an option, either like it is either make them go back home.

quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
That's enough for now, but rest assured the other heroes have their uses.

Cool answer but Iíd like also an answer for other heroes that was not obvious at my eyse, Warriors, Solarii, Cultists, Warriors of Discord and perhaps Barbarians.

And well to tell the truth Iím not convienced for the Monk.

[This message has been edited by DBD (edited 11 November 2001).]

[This message has been edited by DBD (edited 11 November 2001).]

[This message has been edited by DBD (edited 11 November 2001).]
 
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Falotar



Joined: 22 Jan 2001
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Location: Yaro'on the Fair

 PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2001 11:01 am    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I've gone back and read your suggested improvements. Some of them, I would like you to know, were incorporated in the N.E. (for example, Wizard Fleeing when spells are reflected by the Vampire).
Anyway, something you could try in regards to keeping Wizards alive is to "rush" to a level 3 Palace, and build Fairgrounds. Wizards love to compete there, and they level quite rapidly.
In regards to the Monk:
Monks are actually better than Paladins at Melee. Their first two spells - Stoneskin and Hands of Steel - boost their defence and attack, while the last, Iron Will, dramatically increases their MR. Paladins, to balance against the Monks, have upgradable Armour, and can buy Healing Potions, Protection Rings and Teleportation Amulets. They also wield the single spell Shield of Light. Now, do they balance each other, or does one have an advantage? Truthfully, I think they balance. The Monk, with higher Parry and Stoneskin is even against the Paladin with SoL and Armour. The Paladin needs the Marketplace items merely to bear even with the Monk, who actuslly is a better melee combatant overall then the Paladin. As for Fairgrounds, the best thing to do is to place the Temple of Dauros in the "line of fire", build a Teple to Agrela, than Heal the Monks while they fight off monsters. They'll level up quite fast. By the way, I have seen Monks taking down multiple "difficult monsters". It was in the N.E. Quest Spires of Death (I'm sorry that you can't get N.E.), and one Monk killed two Yetis by himself. Now, the N.E. Yetis and Ice Dragons are slightly more difficult than R.G.'s and Dragons, and there were several of these hard beasties, but the Monk took down at least two before being overwhelmed, and that without my help. (I later ressurected him.)
As for the other Melee heroes: WoDs are, admittedly, deficient in the original. Personally, I think they still are. And I think it is part of their character to be weaker against the stronger monsters. It is the role of Dauros to fight against the solitary Dragon; it is the role of Fervus to fight against the horde of goblins. Now, the Dwarf: actually a Warrior who costs more, ahas lower Parry, and builds. They do have a higher Magic Resistance, butsince all the magic-using monsters also have melee, it doesn't do them musch good. Their best characteristic is that they are the only meleer that consistantly goes after rewards. Gnomes aren't really a proper melee hero in the original, they're an auxiliary building force. Enough said. Both Adepts and Solarii are rathwer superfluous, since they come only with lvl 3 Palace. Warriors are actually good fighters. They have a medium in every Melee stat, and Healer support makes them a force to be reckoned with. Finally, Barbarians are cheap, which is their main plus. Also, they get support from Rangers and Wizards. (Monks, by the way, get support from Wizards).

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Steven Of Nine



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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2001 8:05 am    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

It seems obvious that you're referring to Paladins only from the original game, and not including the Expansion. Paladins are far more powerful in the original, compared to the others, for quest play, but as to their being overly powerful... well, does it really matter? If you think they're too powerful, just don't use them.

Then, consider that you have to spend quite a bit of money just to get one: Warrior's Guild, Temple to Dauros and 1000 each, ain't cheap.

In Majesty, too, a Warrior, followed and Healed by a Healer (total cost 750) can stalemate more than one Paladin (in multiplayer.) A warrior similarly followed by a Healer is just as effective in Quest play, too. Healers won't Follow and Heal a Paladin.

Get the Expansion, then take a look at how powerful Paladins are compared to the others. WoDs, Monks and Solarii all get great upgrades (although the Monks don't fare so well in multi.) We've already had the discussion about how outrageously powerful Solarii have become.

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MaDnEsS



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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2001 8:13 am    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

Ummm... I use to think that Palies were the greatest also, until I started randomizing my encounters and trying out different tactics. For a boring bum-rush game against stupid monsters, then yes, then palies have it made. But for most the harder quests and for ANY MULTI-PLAYER games, palies just don't hold up to the usefulnesses of the other heroes.

By the way... why would anyone want to play a game where every heroe in the game is basicly the same? I like the variety that goes along with the variety of gaming situations, myself.

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Falotar



Joined: 22 Jan 2001
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Location: Yaro'on the Fair

 PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2001 9:46 am    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Of Nine:
Get the Expansion, then take a look at how powerful Paladins are compared to the others.



One little thing, Steven: DBD has a Mac.

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DBD



Joined: 04 Nov 2001
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2001 9:04 pm    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

Cool answers, sad to learn Solarii became much more powerful and I can't see that, they are curently my favorite when replaying some quests.

I enjoy their diversified behavior now. I can't be confident but they Guarison first if there is guard towers and it's a cool feature I hadn't discovered before even after to have finished all quests. A problem is that you can't be sure of them guarison but that's a part of the fun.

They also explore well and survive alone best than any other after Paladins, And sometimes they help for an attack flag.

I totally enjoy their diversified behavior.
 
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DBD



Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 77

 PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2001 9:58 pm    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

Cool answers, sad to learn Solarii became much more powerful and I can't see that, they are curently my favorite when replaying some quests.

I enjoy their diversified behavior now. I can't be confident but they Guarison first if there is guard towers and it's a cool feature I hadn't discovered before even after to have finished all quests. A problem is that you can't be sure of them guarison but that's a part of the fun.

They also explore well and survive alone best than any other after Paladins, And sometimes they help for an attack flag.

I totally enjoy their diversified behavior.
 
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Steven Of Nine



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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2001 7:38 am    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
One little thing, Steven: DBD has a Mac.



One little thing: windows emulation software.

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DBD



Joined: 04 Nov 2001
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2001 4:08 pm    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Of Nine:
One little thing: windows emulation software.




Well often it doesn't work well with so many games and wrose, I doubt my computer enough powerful for this game on emulation.

Damnit I'm sad thinking I won't play the NE extension! :-(
 
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DBD



Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 77

 PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2001 4:31 pm    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Falotar:
Well, I've gone back and read your suggested improvements. Some of them, I would like you to know, were incorporated in the N.E. (for example, Wizard Fleeing when spells are reflected by the Vampire).


Very cool!
quote
Quote:
Anyway, something you could try in regards to keeping Wizards alive is to "rush" to a level 3 Palace, and build Fairgrounds. Wizards love to compete there,

Yes I had notice that but well, if I can achieve that itís that I have already win the quest isnít it? I do so anyway when replaying quests and yes it helps. Well perhaps because then they spend most of their time in Fairgrounds! :-)

For testing, I changed a little characteristics of Wizards : 8 HP for start instead of 4 HP and movement speed of Rogue. It rules! and without Fairgrounds. But well, mostly a bit too much because then only few death. 4 HP and Rogues movements could be a fun but not too strong mix. Make them faster help them better living and better support. Otherwise they are too slow to really support any unit. I think a supporting unit must run faster than the supported unit and thatís perhaps why Paladins arenít supported by Healers. Iíll try speed of Rangers for healers to see. But thatís obviously not the single reason as for example Monks and Warriors are as slow but Healers support and follow much much more the warriors.

quote
Quote:
...and they level quite rapidly.


Well for that I think I notice that it depends of the quests, requires chances and help with invisibility.

quote:
In regards to the Monk:
...


Interesting details, but I have a doubt are we playing the same game? The Monks better than Paladin in melee? I tried few quests with Paladins and Monks in order to observe them with care.

I see monks dying, much more rarely Paladins. agaisnt oponents, I saw Paladins hit more often and doing more damages. Despite their much lower parry I saw them mostly untouched. Plus added health potions that are both a majot win of time to not going home and much more safety particularely because Paladins are very clever.

And donít be wrong I donít like Paladins but I found Monks cool. Also, I donít need Paladins for achieving any quest. Imí just curious to understand. You probably have some tricks I donít apply, or your remarks are for NE. Or what?

Among adventadges of Paladins you donít quote:
- For surviving, Health potion is major. I quote it a major adventadge for Paladins. Plus Armor help a lot.
- Plus their faster moving and high clevery make them do plenty right decisions including escaping and using potion at the right time.
- Going to flags: attacks flags only for Paladins but at least they could, Monk just donít.
- Plus faster moving of Paladin make them much more generally usefull. I mostly quote Monks slow moving let them only guarding town and not well, for Wizard when they donít die to Solarii and Adepts do that much better.

Donít be wrong, all of that is for melee efficiency. For example helping faster another unit is melee skill even if not primary. Goind to flag to doing the strategic melee proposed by the sovereign, and so on.

- About healer support, despite they are very slow, I never quote the Healer support Warriors could have. I very rarely saw Healer support to Monks and only for a very short time.
- About Fairgrounds, I still have to test more but for now I saw all except Monks going to Fairgrounds, including stupid WoD or Barbarians.

For your remarks about WoD, Gnomes and Dwarf, I just can agree. For cultist agaisnt Goblins, I dunno. For Hold of Goblins quest, the first time I played it was a deception, end in 7 days, mostly not seen the quest, pure warriors + rangers + rogues only mostly. When replayed it and taking more my time, I enjoyed this quest including fun stuff for Wizards. Well much more time to end the quest but much more fun too.

About Adept and Solarii I totally agree that for most quest they are superflous because allowed only with lvl 3 palace. By editing miscstuff.cam could change that for test. Anyway when replaying quests I try have them always and as sort of priority and I enjoy them.

About Warriors helped by Healer, I remember just once agaisnt two or three monsters the Healer didní heal enough fast and the warrior die. Otherwise they are unbeatable. A major problem is that often, example in WoK, monsters could affraid or even attack Healer then the Warrior is mostly already dead.

About Barbarians, as they are standalone temple plus they have RoK, for now I hardly compare them to other. Yes Ranger support is fun and works ok but not so well and about Wizard support, it doesnít really work from what I saw, it always stop very fast.

Thanks for your cool information but about the Monk, Iíd really like to solve the mystery. have you tricks for monks?
 
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DBD



Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 77

 PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2001 5:05 pm    Post subject: Plaladins too strongs? Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Of Nine:
It seems obvious that you're referring to Paladins only from the original game, and not including the Expansion. Paladins are far more powerful in the original, compared to the others, for quest play,



So I'm not totally wrong!

quote
Quote:
but as to their being overly powerful... well, does it really matter? If you think they're too powerful, just don't use them.


You're right, I could, and I did and I do. But I feel it like not cool. For most heroes they have their particular strength making them important or at least interesting in term of use.

For some heroes, it doesn't in comparison with Paladin. I mean, they they mostly have a similar use but are too weak in comparison. This is for Monks, WoD, Cultists, Solarii and perhaps Warrior and Barbarian.

Well for these last two, ok the Warrior need Healers and even if it doesn't work in many cases it also works often. Also I feel it cost too much but well ok that's not so much. About the Barbarian ho well I don't know him well and I have already saw surprising results with them.

For Solarii, I discover them recently much more and was appealed by their diversified behavior, firstly guarison guard houses but also exploring and even attacking a flag or raiding some lairs. Also if they don't win XP during their first activity, guarison, they still overall progress well in XP. So ok let forget them.

There is now only the Monk, the WoD and the Cultists. Why don't they have a particular thing giving them something really different than what have the Paladin with overall much better results.

For example the Monk could have an area spell, protective, for heroes arround him. This could give them a unique usefull feature that doesn't offer the Paladin. Also I don't understand why these guy without any amor and weapons are so slow.

The same thing should apply to WoD. For example they should follow flags better than do the Paladin. I quote more the reverse which is even more adventadges for the Paladin. Or they should tend to team by 2. I quote this as much for the Paladins, in fact even more, they tend follow same goals.

The Cultists have their own trick throuhg charming animal. But in practice this result in a minor effect probably because of a too low percentage of charming try and success. Well too much is a problem too but as it is, I don't feel it works.

quote
Quote:
In Majesty, too, a Warrior, followed and Healed by a Healer (total cost 750) can stalemate more than one Paladin (in multiplayer.)


Well not, total cost is 800. Or is the too high price of the warrior has been low down for NE?

I dunno for multiplay but in quest, it often happen that either the Healer flee either is attacked with a similar result then it's very bad for the warrior.

In multiplay can't something similar happen through attack flags on Healers head?
 
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