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Need help and opinion on The Valley of the Serpents

 
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Jedadiah Smith



Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 1

 PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:11 pm    Post subject: Need help and opinion on The Valley of the Serpents Reply with quote Back to top

I need a little help and opinion here.

I really enjoyed Majesty, but I am becoming very frustrated with the northern expansion.

The, so categorized, beginner quest was at least equal to an advanced quest and maybe even an expert quest in original Majesty.

I worked my way through the Northern Expansion, advanced, quests with only the greatest of difficulty and if The Valley of the Serpents is any indication then the Northern expansion, expert, quests are just completely out of my league.

I can’t begin to guess how many times I tried The Valley of the Serpents, 10 or 15 at least, without success. Then I read the walkthroughs, elsewhere in this forum, and although I have not tried the one where you raze the Agrela temple and come back with the Fervus and Krypta temples, I did try the one where you raze the Agrela and Lunord temples and come back with the Krolm temples and I was able to win with this strategy.

While its all well and good that I was finally able to win this quest I still have two problems.

First, I see no value in playing a game where I am only able to succeed by following someone else’s blueprint, so I guess my first question is, are all the expert, Northern Expansion quests this hard?

Second, I really think that it should be possible to win a particular quest without having to destroy the starting configuration and coming back with something else. Therefore my second question is, has anybody ever won this quest without altering the starting setup?

After trying The Valley of the Serpents another 15, or so, times I really do not think it’s possible to win with Agrela and Lunord, and I see no value to the Sorcerers Abode and The Hall of Champions in this quest either.

As far as the Agrelas go, when they do hook up with a hero it really helps, but far too often They do not do this in this quest.

With the Lunords, well what can I say? They seem to spend all their time running around, but very rarely engaging anything. They almost never respond to my reward flags, although they do run right by them, and when they occasionally do attack an enemy they run off at the first sign of trouble.

With the Sorcerers Abode the only thing I can say is ineffective. Earthquake does not do enough damage to buildings to matter and Chain Lightning does not do enough damage to matter. Change of Heart and Dismiss obviously affect only one monster and so are similarly ineffective. I have not tried Frost Field and Gate could occasionally be useful I guess, to get a bunch of heroes over to the corner where the first elven bungalow is located if they just happen to be around the Sorcerers Abode when you need them and provided that you have the cash to use it.

As regards the Hall of Champions, when you basically only have two different monster types to worry about (Medusas and Ice Dragons) and your heroes are already knee deep in fighting them, what’s the point of spending the gold to put a bounty on one of them?

So much for my opinions on the starting setup, but with that in mind I have tried, as I said before, maybe 15 times to win the quest with this starting hand and following is the best I can do, and the closest I can come.

I usually start by raising the palace to 2nd level to get additional peasants and another tax collector. Then I build a marketplace and maybe one or two inns to get some income. Then I build a couple of warrior’s guilds up by the original elven bungalow so I can use call to arms to protect this area when things get hot here.

While I am doing all of this I do the first level research in the magic shop and market place and I also scatter 100 gold piece explore flags all around the perimeter of the game board so most of the territory will get explored when the first wave of elves come in.

Then, as time permits, I upgrade and research the marketplace and magic shop as far as I can, while starting a third warrior’s guild near the Agrela temple, and if possible I add a blacksmith and begin upgrading that.

Needless to say, as soon as each warrior’s guild is finished I begin recruiting warriors for it.

This is about as far as I can get.

Sometimes this approach seems to be working for a while. I can easily defeat the first wave of Medusas, and with any luck at all most of the game board quickly gets explored and a couple hundred gold piece attack flag on each serpent temple seems to get most of them destroyed.

Then somewhere around day 9, I think, the wave of Medusas with Ice Dragons arrives and attacks the original elven bungalow. With call to arms I can stop them from doing any damage to the elven bungalow and I can keep the heroes alive with frequent use of the heal spell (no Agrela is ever to be found at this point) but there are a lot of medusas, and the dragons are almost impossible to kill, so this battle just rages on until about day 11 or 12 when new snake pits begin to appear and more dragons appear until my forces are eventually worn down and overrun.

I try small variations in this theme but I just can’t make it work and if I vary it by much I don’t even come close.

To get back to my original questions then:

Has anybody ever won this quest by using the starting setup?

Has anybody ever won this quest if it goes beyond day 11 or 12 or so?

Would anybody care to offer his or her opinions regarding why this quest is valid if it cannot be won using the starting setup?

Well thqnk you for reading, and I look forward to reading your responses.

Sincerely,

Jedadiah Smith
 
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Goldy_Bear



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 2588
Location: Texas

 PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:46 pm    Post subject: Need help and opinion on The Valley of the Serpents Reply with quote Back to top

I haven't played it with the starting setup since the expansion first came out. It has been a looooooong time. But yes, this quest can be won with starting forces. I was able to win it in 16 days with the starting forces.

I cannot give you a blue print because my memory is vague and it has been so long, but this is what I remember.....

Upgrade the palace ASAP. Using winged feet on peasants have them build a Dauros Temple, Warrior's Guild and Trading Post next to the Elven Bungalow in the Corner. Once that is done get back to town ASAP and work on upgrading your market and blacksmith. Add another market. Wait until the new Elven Bungalows pop up to determine where to place a second and possibly third Warrior's Guild. I used all Paladins with this strategy. I aggressively explored, and tagged all pits as soon as they were revealed.
 
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M



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 421
Location: Right here

 PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:56 am    Post subject: Need help and opinion on The Valley of the Serpents Reply with quote Back to top

Advice on Agrela/Lunord:

Adepts flee less near guardhouses.
Blessed Adepts are great, as are Adepts being healed be Healers.
 
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Spiderman



Joined: 28 Mar 2000
Posts: 3053
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

 PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:16 am    Post subject: Need help and opinion on The Valley of the Serpents Reply with quote Back to top

I have also done it with the starting forces but it's also been a while since I played it so I'm not sure how I did it. I do remember placing a Guardhouse near the original Elven Bungalow; when it was attacked the peasants were hopefully still there or I used Winged Feet to speed them on their way (I think I took everything off the repair queue to make them go there).

I remember I also used a Wizard Guild and placed some Towers on the perimeter to deal with the Ice Dragons, but that also took babysitting - some Invisibility on Wizards to help them survive and Heal.

I think the Hall of Champions is more for the bonus it gives heros when they visit rather than the mass reward thing. But I think I kept the Sorceror's Abode off the repair queue and let it be fodder.
 
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Goldy_Bear



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 2588
Location: Texas

 PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:12 pm    Post subject: Need help and opinion on The Valley of the Serpents Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Jedadiah Smith:
I need a little help and opinion here.

I really enjoyed Majesty, but I am becoming very frustrated with the northern expansion.

The, so categorized, beginner quest was at least equal to an advanced quest and maybe even an expert quest in original Majesty.

I worked my way through the Northern Expansion, advanced, quests with only the greatest of difficulty and if The Valley of the Serpents is any indication then the Northern expansion, expert, quests are just completely out of my league.


Jed,

I never really answered this portion of your post. I agree with your evaluation of the difficulty level of the Expansion quests as compared to the original game. I don't agree that the expert quests are out of your league given some time.

The Expansion really did target the existing fan base when it was released. Many of these fans had been playing Majesty since its original release and had played and replayed the orignal quests many times. While waiting for the Expansion to come out some played expert freestyle games, some played Majesty multiplayer online games, and some tried experimenting with different strategies for the Quests. Many of us played Majesty so much that quests such as Tomb of the Dragon King became "easy".

So, the new quests of the expansion were designed to present a challenge to this fan base. I have no doubt that I would have become frustrated and given up early if I had jumped into the expansion quests as a novice Majesty player. I don't know how long you have been playing Majesty. If you are new to the game and have won each of the original quests just once or twice maybe you need more time and experience with the game before moving on to the expansion quests. I can tell you that while waiting for the expansion to be released I "practiced" by playing and replaying The Wrath of Krolm quest. Even so, with the exception of Scions of Discourse there wasn't a single quest I won first time out. Many of the advanced quests took me several tries. Among them Valley of the Serpents seemed impossible at first.
 
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Zonk



Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 57

 PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 8:00 pm    Post subject: Easy Reply with quote Back to top

I actually found this level extremely easy, so much so that I thought a couple of the advanced levels such as Urban Renewal were harder than this one. Valley of the Serpents was only beat by Darkness Falls in ease for me. From what I remember, I quickly built a Temple to Dauros so I could build a Warrior's Guild right next to the remote Elven Bungalow for easy defense. Once I figured that was what I had to do, I cruised through the quest without any hard thinking or strategizing.
 
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MWorius



Joined: 06 Aug 2001
Posts: 75

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Need help and opinion on The Valley of the Serpents Reply with quote Back to top

Jedadiah Smith wrote:
I can’t begin to guess how many times I tried The Valley of the Serpents, 10 or 15 at least, without success. Then I read the walkthroughs, elsewhere in this forum, and although I have not tried the one where you raze the Agrela temple and come back with the Fervus and Krypta temples, I did try the one where you raze the Agrela and Lunord temples and come back with the Krolm temples and I was able to win with this strategy.


Krolm! Krolm! Krolm!

Actually, I haven't tried this one with Krolm yet. Krolm's my favorite strategy to use, but in some quests it makes things harder. This might be one of them, I don't know.


Quote:
After trying The Valley of the Serpents another 15, or so, times I really do not think it’s possible to win with Agrela and Lunord, and I see no value to the Sorcerers Abode and The Hall of Champions in this quest either.

As far as the Agrelas go, when they do hook up with a hero it really helps, but far too often They do not do this in this quest.

With the Lunords, well what can I say? They seem to spend all their time running around, but very rarely engaging anything. They almost never respond to my reward flags, although they do run right by them, and when they occasionally do attack an enemy they run off at the first sign of trouble.


Oh it certainly is. Healers themselves are pretty weak unless you're fighting undead. You got to use warriors, just oridinalry warriors, not paladins. Healers regularly follow them around and heal them.

Adepts are pretty good against medusas and gorgons overall. IIRC, they're more resistant to petrification than other heroes, probably why they're one of the starting forces here.

Quote:
With the Sorcerers Abode the only thing I can say is ineffective. Earthquake does not do enough damage to buildings to matter and Chain Lightning does not do enough damage to matter. Change of Heart and Dismiss obviously affect only one monster and so are similarly ineffective. I have not tried Frost Field and Gate could occasionally be useful I guess, to get a bunch of heroes over to the corner where the first elven bungalow is located if they just happen to be around the Sorcerers Abode when you need them and provided that you have the cash to use it.


Gate is pretty important in this quest. Make sure at the beginning you keep at least 2000 gold in your treasury to cast it. When the medusas assault that single bungalow on day 5 or so, cast a gate between the bungalow and the snakes so your heroes will battle them. You'll probably lose if you don't.

Also, take advantage of the warrior guild's Call to Arms command as well. It's always a good idea to have some warrior guilds near the sorcerer's abode, that way when you Gate, you can also call the warriors to arms, and they'll gated to where you want them to fight. This is true in all Majx quests and freestyle games.

Quote:
As regards the Hall of Champions, when you basically only have two different monster types to worry about (Medusas and Ice Dragons) and your heroes are already knee deep in fighting them, what’s the point of spending the gold to put a bounty on one of them?


Sometimes when you got a LOT of monsters attacking at once it's easier to put out a call for chanpions rather than taking the time to target them individually.

Quote:
I usually start by raising the palace to 2nd level to get additional peasants and another tax collector. Then I build a marketplace and maybe one or two inns to get some income. Then I build a couple of warrior’s guilds up by the original elven bungalow so I can use call to arms to protect this area when things get hot here.


Sounds good. Generally, you should always upgrade the palaces asap. The warrior's guilds as I mentioned above should be built near the sorcerer's abode to take full advantage of Call to Arms and Gate. The peasants won't have as far to walk, and will build the guilds sooner. Also, having them near the sorcerer will allow you to better take advantage of Gate later on, say when trying to wipe out a cluster of several snake pits at once.

Quote:
Then, as time permits, I upgrade and research the marketplace and magic shop as far as I can, while starting a third warrior’s guild near the Agrela temple, and if possible I add a blacksmith and begin upgrading that.


Blacksmith should be first priority.

A blacksmith makes all subsequent buildings cheaper. This savings adds up. Also, the improved weaponry will better enable you to beat monsters, especially the tougher ones.

Quote:
Has anybody ever won this quest by using the starting setup?

Has anybody ever won this quest if it goes beyond day 11 or 12 or so?


Yes and yes.

An optional strategy would be to build an outpost near the first bungalow. This will give you some peasants that will be able to respond more quickly to an attack on the bungalow than the peasants in your palace. I also placed a trading post here to boost income. Now, my peasants didn't construct the outpost until after the first wave (the medusas prevented them from getting to the outpost), and the bungalow was eventually destroyed, but the trading post worked fairly well. I was able to beat the quest relatively quickly (about 16 days) last time i played and tried this.

Don't bother with wizards in this quest either. Medusas have a very high resistance score, so wizards are practically useless here, or at least in the early stages. They might be helpful against the dragons, but I've never bothered with them myself.
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